Question:
If the evolution theory is established science, why is it that these 900+ scientists dissent?
Roberta B
2016-12-17 18:14:29 UTC
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660
25 answers:
bob7777
2016-12-18 05:13:02 UTC
OBSERVATION



The more divorced from practical reality any given theory is, the greater its fascination for those who are divorced from reality.



The present theory of Evolution is a prime example. Why & how is this true?

Today, there are in effect two theories of evolution.



The first is defined by the word evolution itself. That simple definition is “change over time”. That definition has largely been proven true. And there is no argument with that definition.



The second is where evolution, the simple word, has been elevated into Evolution using a capitol “E”. This is where evolution theory been divorced from reality. How so? Proponents claim Evolution has created life, been responsible for life changing from a collection of amino acids and proteins into complex systems which continue to “evolve” into ever more complex systems. Thus they teach Evolution has brought into existence all living things from a common primitive ancestor. And is even responsible for that primitive ancestor. Thus Evolution goes by the term Abiogenesis (sp) or something from nothing.



Do all 'learned' men ascribe to all the literature teaching 'everything' comes into existence by means of Evolution? No! In fact, abiogenesis has been discredited so often only those who are totally divorced from reality continue to support the concept. Reality is, of course, a matter of perception. Those who ascribe to Evolution “perceive” what they choose to perceive and believe accordingly. Unfortunately, these 'people' make up the leadership behind and supporters of Evolution. Thus Evolution, different from evolution, has in effect become a religion complete with its own priests and prophets and miracles.



Then there are those who try to reach a middle ground, so to speak. These ones admit they have no real theory of the origin of life. But they teach once life existed it evolved into what we see today.



Bottom Line. The learned men today still are fascinated by the unreality of Evolution
busterwasmycat
2016-12-17 21:25:26 UTC
Well, heck, science wouldn't be healthy if there wasn't some disagreement. Sometimes the tiny minority turns out to have been right, even if only in part. Usually they simply toil away on their minority worldview and never bring much fruit to the effort, but there have been some fundamental overturns in science, such as the replacement of isostacy by plate tectonics as the accepted cause of mountain formation, or even Einstein's replacement of Newtonian physics in part. It is pretty rare, though, to see anything that is so well supported turn out to be completely wrong rather than only wrong in detail or in certain conditions.



Scientists ARE people, and people develop their own unique opinions based on their life experiences and historic knowledge, so it should not be surprising that "science" is not a monolithic cult. Science would be worse off and less likely to find the truth if it were monolithic, lacking in dissenters. Dissent is normally encouraged, even, unless you step into a political minefield like AGW (or perhaps "evolution of life").



There is no question that evolution of life occurs and has occurred, and I don't know a single qualified scientist that would argue with a straight face, in all seriousness, that life has remained the same throughout time. The "dissent" you speak of is more on the side of the why and how not if. the main dissent seems to lie in the details anyway, down at the level of how life can make a fundamental transformation without causing its own demise in the process, rather than assertions that life does not evolve at all. Only the hyper-religious or the delusional assert that evolution cannot have occurred and that what we can observe is somehow a purposeful deception by some superior being.



Oh, and among those dissenters you will probably find an "aliens did it" scientist or three. The dissent is also not monolithic in form.
bobette
2016-12-18 05:06:22 UTC
And how many scientists around the world DON'T dissent. What percentage of the total of all trained scientists in the world does your 900 constitute? I suspect that it would be a miniscule fraction of one percent.



There are always dissenters from any scientific idea; that is how science advances. The key is that the dissenters supply an alternative idea that takes into account all of the available evidence and observation about the idea they question.



Your 900 have failed, and miserably, to do that. "And then a miracle happened" ain't science. Sorry!
Brigalow Bloke
2016-12-17 21:18:29 UTC
"Evolution is a vital, well-supported, unifying principle of the biological sciences, and the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the idea that all living things share a common ancestry. Although there are legitimate debates about the patterns and processes of evolution, there is no serious scientific doubt that evolution occurred or that natural selection is a major mechanism in its occurrence. It is scientifically inappropriate and pedagogically irresponsible for creationist pseudoscience, including but not limited to "intelligent design," to be introduced into the science curricula of our nation's public schools."



1406 scientists who go by some version of the name "Stephen" have signed this statement as of 23 November 2016. That's more than your 900+ and if the list had not been limited to the "Stephens" it would probably be more like 50,000.



Your argument is a familiar one and very far from new, it dates back to the 1990s or earlier before the World Wide Web existed. Close examination of the lists that have been produced or copied without attribution by various young Earth creationist and "intelligent design" organisations shows some who are not scientists but engineers or mathematicians, a few who cannot be identified and some who are active members of those organisations. In addition, some scientists who have been on the list have demanded that their names be removed but there is a very good chance that this has not happened on all versions or copies of the list.



Further, the fact that any theory in science has to be regarded with some skepticism, whether Newton's theory of gravity which was modified by Einstein or Lavoisier's theory of chemical compounds was also modified by later chemists when new information came in. The fact that some of the scientists regard basic evolutionary theory as set out in the leading statement with some skepticism is not proof or evidence that they actively disagree with it nor that they dissent from it.



The fact that your quoted list exists at all is evidence of the fundamental dishonesty of young Earth creationism. There is nothing new in that, all promoters of young Earth creationism lie directly or by omission and with 60 or so years of practice since the 1950s are rather expert at it.
anonymous
2016-12-19 13:08:25 UTC
That list comes from the Discovery Institute. I would not believe them if they told me the Sun will rise tomorrow. That list is made up. There is no external verification on that list that the people listed are practising scientists and who did not earn a PhD years ago and give up science to become creationists. There are with abssolute certaainty scientists listed on that list who do not dissent from evolution. There is no verification that the list is true. The list doees not tell us why the dissent from evolution.



I shall tell you why that list of 900+ scientists exists. It is like everything else coming out from the Discovery Institute it is a canard and a fraud. They do not even have the courage to stand by what they clain, i.e. the Judeo-Christian version of creation but have to be deceitful in calling it intelligent design.
andymanec
2016-12-19 17:08:23 UTC
Mostly because scientists are people, and in any group of people, you're going to get some that are swayed by their biases, or are just wrong. The Discovery Institute is a little bit dishonest in its list, too (as with most things that they put out). They include a large number of scientists who don't have expertise in a relevant field. A computer scientist or electrical engineer has to have a high level of training to do their job... but it's not any sort of training that's relevant to evolution or biology in general, in the same way that a biologists training wouldn't apply to computer science or engineering.



Also, 900+ sounds like a lot... but it's an extremely tiny percentage of the scientific community. As a tongue-in-cheek counter to the DI's list of descent, the National Center for Science Education put together "Project Steve". It's a list of scientists named "Steve" (or some variation of the name) that support evolution. Even with this pretty severe (and completely arbitrary) restriction on names, the list is already past 1400.



https://ncse.com/list-of-steves
Smeghead
2016-12-17 18:34:19 UTC
Because these so-called "scientists" will turn out to be, upon closer examination, in areas of science that have nothing at all to do with biology, or have extremely dubious credentials. This is like citing a plumber to prove that nuclear physics doesn't work. Also, in the past, lists like this have included names of people who, when contacted, violently disagreed with creationism and objected to anyone saying they had any problem with evolution. In short, these lists are completely worthless and probably mostly lies.



Besides, 900 is an absolutely tiny fraction of actual scientists in the world. There are idiots in any group. I might as well have posted, "Look! Only a mere 900 scientists disagree with this, making it one of the most widely accepted ideas in the world!"
nikki1234
2016-12-19 01:35:31 UTC
why do they dissent? you did not clarify the point?

even if they do dissent, i do not; and that is what is important, isn't it?



mendel, darwin, pasteur, watson and crick; these are all men who have made great scientific discoveries, and while some people are science deniers, many more are not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution

The overwhelming majority of the scientific community accepts evolution as the dominant scientific theory of biological diversity.[1][2] Nearly every scientific society, representing hundreds of thousands of scientists, has issued statements rejecting intelligent design[2] and a petition supporting the teaching of evolutionary biology was endorsed by 72 US Nobel Prize winners.[3]



on the intelligent design front, it is sad to see christianity try to prove its value through the denunciation of science. there are many religions which deny christianity, and its creation myth.

myself, i practice a religion which does not deny science, but does deny the validity of the christian religion. here, for example, is the buddhist theory of life and death. the cycle of birth, old age (aging), sickness, and death, is as true for the microcosm as the macrocosm.

http://nichiren.info/gosho/HeritageUltimateLawLife.htm
?
2016-12-17 19:47:12 UTC
And, how many of those 900 were willing to testify and defend their views in cross examination at Dover, PA, in 2005? The vast majority ran like scalded cats and those that did testify were made to look like incompetent fools under cross examination.



Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District



Court United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania

Full case name Tammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District, et al.

Argued September 26, 2005–November 4, 2005

Decided December 20 2005

Citation(s) 400 F. Supp. 2d 707 (M.D. Pa. 2005)



Evolution was proven to be a valid, well supported by observation and prediction, science under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.



Creation Science / Intelligent Design was proven to NOT be science, but rather religion and completely lacking in supporting evidence, observation, or prediction.



Judge was a practicing Christian.



This was THE test of: Can Creationism be taught as science in public schools. Both sides were well funded, sent their best Expert Witnesses and their best lawyers. The Creationist side was not just beaten, they were crushed under the weight of evidence the evolution side presented. Every argument the Creationists put forward was shot down easily. By contrast, the evolution side's evidence, in some cases, was so compelling, the Creationists had no rebuttal and could not even cross-examine. That is solid evidence that is so good it cannot be challenged.



EXAMPLE: Kenneth R. Miller, PhD, Professor of Biology, Brown University, and co-author of the most widely used high school Biology text in the USA. Dr. Miller testified in support of teaching evolution at the Dover, PA trial.





The interesting thing is: The trial was run under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. That means that the Dr Miller's testimony and the evidence he planned to offer was known to the Intelligent Design/Creationist side through his depositions (This is what I am going to say.), interrogatories (This is how I will answer your questions.) and discovery (This is the evidence I will offer) in preparation for the case. They knew what was coming and yet their experts provided no counter argument to his evidence; he was not even cross-examined on that testimony. (Dr Miller’s testimony was a “kill shot to the head.”) If they had a rebuttal, they would have offered it. They did not. In addition, the Federal Judge (a conservative, strict constructionist) that had sent people to prison on the basis of DNA evidence would have laughed the ID/Creationists out of his court if they had tried to argue that DNA did not prove relationship. 





If what you say is correct, how did the ID side lose so badly? Fact is, even with all the best expert witnesses that the ID side had it could not present a single fact or observation to refute evolution. Not one.



“The second thing that you saw at the trial, was that when data was introduced at the trial, which I and another witness introduced from whole genome sequencing, the intelligent design advocates just literally had nothing to say. We weren't asked questions in cross-examination, the other side never brought it up, they never argued against it, they just left it.” Ken Miller, PhD on neither he nor the other evolution Expert Witnesses NOT being cross-examined on their testimony.

Creationists often complain that the judge and the legal system was biased against Creationism. But, when your case is so weak that you cannot even cross examine the opposition, you have no hope of winning.





It should also be noted that both Dr. Miller and the judge are practicing Christians.





http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/intelligent-design-trial.html
Donut Tim
2016-12-17 18:28:17 UTC
Very funny. You are far too late to discredit biological evolution.



Knowledge regarding evolution has already greatly improved our quality of life and has produced tens of thousands of discoveries. It is the foundation for all the biological sciences including genetics, epidemiology, agriculture, embryology, bacteriology, zoology, forensics, marine biology… the list goes on.

The process of evolution is also studied in such diverse fields as archeology, toxicology, thermodynamics, chemistry, geology and plate tectonics.



Biological evolution is observable, testable and repeatable.



►Denying evolution now would be like denying the possibility of electronics after using a telephone, television and computer.
jun
2016-12-21 11:05:40 UTC
These dissenters are smarter. All of them have questions that the theory can not answer.
οικος
2016-12-17 18:21:10 UTC
Perhaps those 900+ have never had a decent course in biology.
ParanoiaPioneer
2016-12-17 18:15:50 UTC
That's a minute number considering how many scientists there are.
Sagan Ritual
2016-12-20 22:03:03 UTC
That's not how it works

Evidence, not argument

Is the arbiter
?
2016-12-19 21:47:03 UTC
1st thing you need to grasp is



just cos you "dissent" dont mean you think its wrong its just that YOU dont think its 100% correct



Scientists today know "gravity" exists - but many (most?) dont know EXACTLY causes it

some may"dissent" on what einstain said , and think it needs more research, bu that dont mean think its "wrong"



What they DO know is - it aint caused by a "magic fairy dust"
?
2016-12-18 05:44:39 UTC
Evolution vs the talking snake hypothesis, who will win?
?
2016-12-17 18:20:16 UTC
They are entitled to disagree it doesn't make them right though
mosammat
2016-12-20 17:02:19 UTC
100% correct don't know exactly causes it
?
2016-12-19 17:39:58 UTC
Because they're still morons.
❀✿☺Flowerchild☺✿❀
2016-12-17 18:17:38 UTC
Because the theory of evolution is held together by a lot of assumption and 'stories' that haven't been proven. Perhaps they are thinking back to when the world thought that the elements were fire, water, earth, and air, and realized how much time was lost on that assumption. They don't want to repeat all that lost time again.
Georgie
2016-12-19 20:43:01 UTC
Because they KNOW BETTER! Now "count" how many believe in CREATION--there are LOTS...



"Praise Jah, you people, as He is our CREATOR!"
Daddy Bob, the old Dude
2016-12-19 22:04:54 UTC
Is evolution really scientific?

The “scientific method” is as follows: Observe what happens; based on those observations, form a theory as to what may be true; test the theory by further observations and by experiments; and watch to see if the predictions based on the theory are fulfilled. Is this the method followed by those who believe in and teach evolution?

Astronomer Robert Jastrow says: “To their chagrin [scientists] have no clear-cut answer, because chemists have never succeeded in reproducing nature’s experiments on the creation of life out of nonliving matter. Scientists do not know how that happened.”—The Enchanted Loom: Mind in the Universe (New York, 1981), p. 19.

Evolutionist Loren Eiseley acknowledged: “After having chided the theologian for his reliance on myth and miracle, science found itself in the unenviable position of having to create a mythology of its own: namely, the assumption that what, after long effort, could not be proved to take place today had, in truth, taken place in the primeval past.”—The Immense Journey (New York, 1957), p. 199.

According to New Scientist: “An increasing number of scientists, most particularly a growing number of evolutionists . . . argue that Darwinian evolutionary theory is no genuine scientific theory at all. . . . Many of the critics have the highest intellectual credentials.”—June 25, 1981, p. 828.

Physicist H. S. Lipson said: “The only acceptable explanation is creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the experimental evidence supports it.” (Italics added.)—Physics Bulletin, 1980, Vol. 31, p. 138.

Are those who advocate evolution in agreement? How do these facts make you feel about what they teach?

The introduction to the centennial edition of Darwin’s Origin of Species (London, 1956) says: “As we know, there is a great divergence of opinion among biologists, not only about the causes of evolution but even about the actual process. This divergence exists because the evidence is unsatisfactory and does not permit any certain conclusion. It is therefore right and proper to draw the attention of the non-scientific public to the disagreements about evolution.”—By W. R. Thompson, then director of the Commonwealth Institute of Biological Control, Ottawa, Canada.

“A century after Darwin’s death, we still have not the slightest demonstrable or even plausible idea of how evolution really took place—and in recent years this has led to an extraordinary series of battles over the whole question. . . . A state of almost open war exists among the evolutionists themselves, with every kind of [evolutionary] sect urging some new modification.”—C. Booker (London Times writer), The Star, (Johannesburg), April 20, 1982, p. 19.

The scientific magazine Discover said: “Evolution . . . is not only under attack by fundamentalist Christians, but is also being questioned by reputable scientists. Among paleontologists, scientists who study the fossil record, there is growing dissent.”—October 1980, p. 88.

What view does the fossil record support?

Darwin acknowledged: “If numerous species . . . have really started into life at once, the fact would be fatal to the theory of evolution.” (The Origin of Species, New York, 1902, Part Two, p. 83) Does the evidence indicate that “numerous species” came into existence at the same time, or does it point to gradual development, as evolution holds?

Have sufficient fossils been found to draw a sound conclusion?

Smithsonian Institution scientist Porter Kier says: “There are a hundred million fossils, all catalogued and identified, in museums around the world.” (New Scientist, January 15, 1981, p. 129) A Guide to Earth History adds: “By the aid of fossils palaeontologists can now give us an excellent picture of the life of past ages.”—(New York, 1956), Richard Carrington, Mentor edition, p. 48.

What does the fossil record actually show?

The Bulletin of Chicago’s Field Museum of Natural History pointed out: “Darwin’s theory of [evolution] has always been closely linked to evidence from fossils, and probably most people assume that fossils provide a very important part of the general argument that is made in favor of darwinian interpretations of the history of life. Unfortunately, this is not strictly true. . . . the geologic record did not then and still does not yield a finely graduated chain of slow and progressive evolution.”—January 1979, Vol. 50, No. 1, pp. 22, 23.

A View of Life states: “Beginning at the base of the Cambrian period and extending for about 10 million years, all the major groups of skeletonized invertebrates made their first appearance in the most spectacular rise in diversity ever recorded on our planet.”—(California, 1981), Salvador E. Luria, Stephen Jay Gould, Sam Singer, p. 649.

Paleontologist Alfred Romer wrote: “Below this [Cambrian period], there are vast thicknesses of sediments in which the progenitors of the Cambrian forms would be expected. But we do not find them; these older beds are almost barren of evidence of life, and the general picture could reasonably be said to be consistent with the idea of a special creation at the beginning of Cambrian times.”—Natural History, October 1959, p. 467.

Zoologist Harold Coffin states: “If progressive evolution from simple to complex is correct, the ancestors of these full-blown living creatures in the Cambrian should be found; but they have not been found and scientists admit there is little prospect of their ever being found. On the basis of the facts alone, on the basis of what is actually found in the earth, the theory of a sudden creative act in which the major forms of life were established fits best.”—Liberty, September/October 1975, p. 12.

Carl Sagan, in his book Cosmos, candidly acknowledged: “The fossil evidence could be consistent with the idea of a Great Designer.”—(New York, 1980), p. 29.

Might it be that the evolutionary process took place as a result of mutations, that is, sudden drastic changes in genes?

Science Digest states: “Evolutionary revisionists believe mutations in key regulatory genes may be just the genetic jackhammers their quantum-leap theory requires.” However, the magazine also quotes British zoologist Colin Patterson as stating: “Speculation is free. We know nothing about these regulatory master genes.” (February 1982, p. 92) In other words, there is no evidence to support the theory.

The Encyclopedia Americana acknowledges: “The fact that most mutations are damaging to the organism seems hard to reconcile with the view that mutation is the source of raw materials for evolution. Indeed, mutants illustrated in biology textbooks are a collection of freaks and monstrosities and mutation seems to be a destructive rather than a constructive process.”—(1977), Vol. 10, p. 742.

What about those “ape-men” depicted in schoolbooks, encyclopedias and museums?

“The flesh and hair on such reconstructions have to be filled in by resorting to the imagination. . . . Skin color; the color, form, and distribution of the hair; the form of the features; and the aspect of the face—of these characters we know absolutely nothing for any prehistoric men.”—The Biology of Race (New York, 1971), James C. King, pp. 135, 151.

“The vast majority of artists’ conceptions are based more on imagination than on evidence. . . . Artists must create something between an ape and a human being; the older the specimen is said to be, the more apelike they make it.”—Science Digest, April 1981, p. 41.

“Just as we are slowly learning that primitive men are not necessarily savages, so we must learn to realize that the early men of the Ice Age were neither brute beasts nor semi-apes nor cretins. Hence the ineffable stupidity of all attempts to reconstruct Neanderthal or even Peking man.”—Man, God and Magic (New York, 1961), Ivar Lissner, p. 304.

Do not textbooks present evolution as fact?

“Many scientists succumb to the temptation to be dogmatic, . . . over and over again the question of the origin of the species has been presented as if it were finally settled. Nothing could be further from the truth. . . . But the tendency to be dogmatic persists, and it does no service to the cause of science.”—The Guardian, London, England, December 4, 1980, p. 15.

But is it reasonable to believe that everything on this earth was created in six days?

There are some religious groups that teach that God created everything in six 24-hour days. But that is not what the Bible says.

Genesis 1:3-31 tells how God prepared the already existing earth for human habitation. It says that this was done during a period of six days, but it does not say that these were 24-hour days. It is not unusual for a person to refer to his “grandfather’s day,” meaning that one’s entire lifetime. So, too, the Bible often uses the term “day” to describe an extended period of time. (Compare 2 Peter 3:8.) Thus the ‘days’ of Genesis chapter 1 could reasonably be thousands of years long.
G C
2016-12-17 18:15:53 UTC
More than that. Evolution cannot be found in nature. The only place it can be found is the classroom.
?
2016-12-18 07:50:12 UTC
Lol please tell me question is a joke evolution is prooven fact like or not
?
2016-12-17 23:54:59 UTC
God did it


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