Question:
Do atheists agree with Darwin that Black people and native Australians are more like gorillas than Caucasians?
2016-06-11 23:21:52 UTC
The Descent of Man, one entire chapter was dedicated to “The Races of Man.” In that book, Darwin wrote:

At some future period not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes...will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest Allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as the baboon, instead of as now between the ***** or Australian and the gorilla

(1874, p. 178)
26 answers:
Smeghead
2016-06-12 09:49:59 UTC
Others have already admirably shown how much dishonesty and outright lying there is in your supposed quote, so let me just add this:



Even if Darwin WERE the world's worst racist in history, that would be completely irrelevant to the theory of evolution. He was the first to propose the idea, but the theory itself is based on EVIDENCE. Mountains and mountains of documented evidence. If Charles Darwin were erased from history, it wouldn't make the tiniest bit of a different to the modern theory.



Religious people take religion as their model, and assume that people who actually understand science treat it as a religion. Therefore, they assume that Darwin is a subject of worship, and all they need to do is demonstrate that he was less than perfect, and the entire field of modern biology will crumble into dust. This is, of course, idiotic childish nonsense.
Nous
2016-06-12 02:23:03 UTC
Why do Chrsitians try this racist LIE?



It shows why Chrsitianity is becoming so ridiculed!



Which extremist sect or cult indoctrinated you to believe that God was not clever enough to use the big bang, evolution and science as his tools?



The Pope, Catholic Church, Church of England and mainstream churches all accept the big bang and evolution!



Lord Carey the former Archbishop of Canterbury put it rather well – “Creationism is the fruit of a fundamentalist approach to scripture, ignoring scholarship and critical learning, and confusing different understandings of truth”!



Nice that Christians and atheists can agree and laugh together but sadly at God’s expense!
?
2016-06-11 23:25:08 UTC
No, don't agree with that. Darwin and evolution have nothing to do with atheism in the first place. Nor do I agree with L. Frank Baum's racist comments he made about the inevitable eradication of the Native American nations. It was a different mindset a century or two ago, and many things said that would be frowned upon now.

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?
2016-06-12 02:39:57 UTC
Facepalm.

Ok let me try and explain, we the human race all began in africa over a HUGE distance living up tree's, did you not read the book fully? Did you not google DNA, genetics, biology, archaelogy, geology etc.

So we are all africans, so being racists is as stupid as you can possibly be because its like calling your own parents names. (And yes when we went through our bottleneck and merely 18,000 of us existed, chances are everyone in africa today is a DIRECT decendant of our OWN families.

We then met the neandrethals, and then we liked hiking, fishing and swimming - because we populated the world. And even if we are white today, we would be utter morons not to understand those in africa today are still extreme distant relatives of ourselves.



I would argue as an atheist its a good quality we share, most atheists are not racist, and have no issue with our ancestors. You on the other hand dont understand the book you are talking about.
?
2016-06-11 23:57:25 UTC
You made that up. Probably because you didnt understand the whole chapter. You probably wont understand this bit either.



"Darwin reaffirmed the evidence that humans all had a common origin, a view known as monogenism, and rejected polygenism, which posits that the races had separate origins.[23] He concluded that "...when the principles of evolution are generally accepted, as they surely will be before long, the dispute between the monogenists and the polygenists will die a silent and unobserved death."[24]
2016-06-14 08:35:36 UTC
What have atheists got anything to do with this. Atheists can be as racist, discriminatory and bigotted as theists. Being an atheist does not make you a scientist; a common error made by uneducated theists.



Charles Darwin may have been the world's worst racist ever. It matters not to the veracity of evolution. Darwin was a financially well off white man who lived in Victorian England. It would hardly be surprising if his Victorian paternalism and attitude to non-European peoples comes across in his writings. Its important to put things in their historical context.



Even had Darwin claimed that black people were sub-human and more like non-human great apes his now unaccaeptable claims would not alter evolution. Evolution happens whether you accept it or not. Evolution happens whether authors writing about it are totally racist or over the top politically correct.



I strongly suspect this question has been posted as one of the many vain attempts made on this forum to show evolution is not true. This is one of the more pathetic efforts because Darwin's views have no effect on whether evolution is true or not.
adriana
2016-06-13 21:42:25 UTC
They are very first cousins .
Cal King
2016-06-13 19:16:13 UTC
In some ways, such as skin color, Africans and Australians do resemble the gorilla more than Caucasians do. Caucasians do have light skin-tones, unlike the gorilla. However, chimpanzees have light skin tones, and they are more closely related to us than gorillas are. Further, if you look at the palms of an African, you can see that the skin is much lighter in tone than the rest of the body. Since the palm is not exposed to the sun as much as the other body parts, its lighter color suggests that the ancestor of Africans probably had light skin, much like the chimp, and that they evolved dark skin because they evolved in the open African savanna, and lost their body fur and they need more melanin to protect themselves from harmful cancer causing UV light that also gives us sunburn. In contrast, gorillas have dark colored palms, indicating they did not evolve from an ancestor with lighter skin.



Australian aborigines are some of the earliest migrants out of Africa, according to their DNA and archaeological evidence. They retain their dark skin because the climate of Australia is tropical, much like Africa. OTOH, Europeans also had African ancestors, just like all non-Africans and they also migrated out of Africa, but they entered Europe during the last ice age. Being in a cool climate Europeans (and for that matter the northern Chinese, Koreans and Japanese) had to wear clothes or animal skins to stay warm. Since clothing blocks out the sun, and since the sun's UV light is needed to manufacture vitamin D, the shortage of which can lead to rickets (which can cause broken bones, malformed bones and even death), these people pretty much had to evolve lighter skin to absorb more UV light to survive. The same is true of the chimp. They are smaller than gorillas so they have more body surface to lose heat. Therefore they need more fur to stay warm. The thicker fur blocks sunlight from reaching the skin so they have light skin to absorb UV light to make vitamin D. Look at the face of a baby chimp, it is as light in tone as many people with light skin. The gorilla, being larger, has less body surface than chimps so they lose body heat more slowly. As a result the gorilla has less fur, and so they need a darker skin to help protect them from skin cancer and sunburn. In fact Snowflake, the albino gorilla, died of skin cancer later in life because its body lacked any UV light absorbing melanin that gives the skin a dark color.



Therefore the available evidence suggests that the dark skin of Africans, Australians, and the dark skin of gorillas are the result of convergent evolution, or the evolution of similar traits because of similar needs. The same is true of chimps and Caucasians/northern Chinese/Japanese/Koreans. They all have light skin tone because they have more body covering to stay warm, and the lighter skin tones help them absorb UV light to prevent rickets. They both evolved light skin from dark skinned ancestors. Caucasians evolved light skin from african ancestors, and chimps evolved light skin from a dark-skinned ape, most likely the gorilla. Africans in turn evolved from a light-skinned ancestor. They did not inherit their dark skin from the gorilla. In other words, Africans and gorillas resemble each other in skin color due to evolutionary convergence. Evolutionary convergence is not evidence of a close relationship. Therefore Africans are not any more closely related to gorillas than Caucasians are. Lastly, Darwin wasn't claiming that Africans are closer relatives of gorillas than Caucasians. He just made a statement about phenetics, or morphological disparity, not about evolutionary relationship. He noted that gorillas and dark skinned humans display less morphological disparity (phenetic distance) than there exists between Caucasians and baboons. That is quite true, and besides, baboons are more distant relatives of humans than gorillas are. Nevertheless Darwin did make the mistake of not realizing that the dark color of Africans and gorillas are the result of evolutionary convergence. We cannot blame him for that because he did not know about vitamin D, melanin, skin tone and rickets. These facts were all discovered after he had passed away.
Brigalow Bloke
2016-06-13 18:08:21 UTC
No. I do not take everything that ANYONE says as "gospel truth". Perhaps you might treat what you are told with some reserve and just occasionally check it against known facts.



35 years or so before Charles Darwin was born, Antoine Laurent de Lavoisier concluded that combustion of fuels was the result of oxygen of the air combining with the fuel. He was correct. He went on to propose that sulphuric acid has the chemical formula HSO . He was wrong about that but right about combustion.



While Charles Darwin was in Argentina, he found to his disgust that the local descendants of the Spanish were systematically killing native Americans with organised death squads.



The fact that Charles Darwin was wrong about one thing or many things does not mean he was wrong about everything. Aside from all that, he did not invent the idea of evolution, which is older than Christianity by 300 or more years, he proposed a rational mechanism based on heredity which some decades later was found to be essentially correct. This is probably news to you since it's likely you have been carefully misinformed.



The persistent attempts by young Earth creationists to discredit Charles Darwin by calling him a racist is particularly amusing, since the heartland of young Earth creationism is the same as the heartland of segregation in the USA up to the later 1960s and the Ku Klux Klan even today.
Caesar
2016-06-11 23:45:50 UTC
I dont need to agree and I wont defend Darwin from his biases, but let’s be quite clear on what they are first (and note, if Darwin turned out to be a baby eating white supremacist, it no more makes evolution false than the fact that most baby eating white supremacists are Christians discredits Christianity)....
?
2016-06-11 23:33:54 UTC
You do know that while he did show his observations that not all are going to be correct? Atheists do not hold The Origins of Species in the same regard as Christians do the Bible. It pointed the way to an investigation that others have refined. We look at the facts and draw the conclusions, not try to fit reality to an old book.
?
2016-06-13 11:04:34 UTC
yet another theist who dont have a clue how science works



science requires evidence

the morality, age, opinions, sex. of the person who presented that evidence is IRRELEVANT



the ONLY thing thats relevant is the validity of that evidence cos "science" is 100% amoral



Darwin presented evidence of his theory evolution by natural selection



THAT was determined valid, so his theory was excepted



NOBODY gave a f///k then, or gives a f//k now, about the morality of darwin cos it CHANGES NOTHING



THAT theory still stands as valid today, cos NOTHING has proved it wrong



get used to that fact, move on, and learn something (anything) about how science works cos at the moment you know f//k all about it



(the nazis carried out experiments on russian prisoners in camps, ALL those prisoners died as a result of those experiments

BUT

those experiments were carried out scientifically and are as valid today as they were then

AND NASA used the results of those experiments in the Apollo space program



you think they shouldnt have used the results cos the nazis were amoral murderers?)
οικος
2016-06-12 12:40:32 UTC
1) That was not what Darwin believed.

2) Darwin was a good Christian, throughout his life.

3) While you might find some atheists who believe that, I suspect that you would find more Christians that do.
2016-06-12 00:00:48 UTC
I think during the period that he was living, a lot of conquering was taking place. Indiginous populations were being slaughtered by the thousands, and it looked like they wouldn't survive, but they did.



Atheism is a lack of belief in God/Gods. Darwin proved the theory of evolution.
Thisisnota
2016-06-12 10:35:18 UTC
Oh look at that, another creationist making an ad hominem attack against evolution, saying evolution isn't real because Darwin was racist, I've never seen that before.
?
2016-06-11 23:48:10 UTC
Irrespective of what athee-evos believe, Darwin was clearly a man who mistakenly saw evolutionism in everything, even blacks as some sort of sub human species, and then based his theory on all those mistakes. His main argument involved "different" finches which he only observed for a few months (which we now know are the same species and interbreed with one another) and concluded from that amoebas will become human beings over a few billion years.
2016-06-11 23:40:03 UTC
Ahhh, so you expect the peaceful and civilized Australian black people to replace the savage white people of America who bomb civilian hospitals in Afghanistan and constantly invade other countries. Yep, those white savages need EXTERMINATION. Gee you're intelligent.
Lighting the Way to Reality
2016-06-12 02:56:33 UTC
No, as an atheist I do NOT agree that Darwin EVER said that Black people and native Australians are more like gorillas than Caucasians.



Here is what Darwin said about the races in his Descent of Man:



"Although the existing races of man differ in many respects, as in colour, hair, shape of skull, proportions of the body, &c., yet if their whole organisation be taken into consideration they are found to resemble each other closely in a multitude of points. Many of these points are of so unimportant or of so singular a nature, that it is extremely improbable that they should have been independently acquired by aboriginally distinct species or races. The same remark holds good with equal or greater force with respect to the numerous points of mental similarity between the most distinct races of man. The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans differ as much from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Fuegians on board the Beagle, with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours; and so it was with a full-blooded n e g r o with whom I happened once to be intimate."



Does that sound like someone who believed that blacks are inferior?



Furthermore, the following precedes your quote.



"The great break in the organic chain between man and his nearest allies [the apes], which cannot be bridged over by any extinct or living species, has often been advanced as a grave objection to the belief that man is descended from some lower form; but this objection will not appear of much weight to those who, from general reasons, believe in the general principle of evolution."



Note that he said "The great break in the organic chain between man and his nearest allies [the apes], which cannot be bridged over by any extinct or living species..."



He did not indicate that Blacks were a "bridge" between man and apes, which he certainly would have done if he actually believed they were, because of his desire for evidence of such a bridge.



Considering what Darwin had said about the similarities in intellect between whites and the other races, his remark about the separation between "civilized" Caucasians and the N e g r o or Australian, rather than to a similarity to apes, referred to their primitive mode of existence, and to their eventual--and regrettable, in his mind--extermination along with the apes, by the "civilized" whites.



Furthermore, at that time Christians justified their enslavement of Blacks on both the Bible and their belief that Blacks were subhuman.



The following shows Darwin's attitude towards the enslavement of Blacks in contrast with the Christian norm of the time.



"While strolling about the town Darwin was disgusted at the sight of black slaves, and upon returning to the Beagle he got into a big quarrel with Capt. FitzRoy about the ethics of treating humans as property. FitzRoy [who was a devout Christian] flew into a temper and forbid Darwin to share his dinner table with him ever again. After a short cooling off period Capt. FitzRoy apologized to Darwin and his privilege to dine with him was restored."



" 'We had several quarrels; for when out of temper he [FitzRoy] was utterly unreasonable. For instance, early in the voyage at Bahia in Brazil he defended and praised slavery, which I abominated, and told me that he just visited a great slave-owner, who had called up many of his slaves and asked them whether they were happy, and whether they wished to be free, and all answered 'No.' I then asked him, perhaps with a sneer, whether he thought that the answers of slaves in the presence of their master was worth anything. This made him excessively angry ...'"

-- Charles Darwin



It is clear that Darwin was a better man than most Christians of the time.
Skookum
2016-06-11 23:24:14 UTC
Again, you show you have no idea what "atheist" means.

Hint: It has to do with whether gods exist, and that is not a biology topic.
2016-06-12 16:23:52 UTC
"Do modern day people agree with people of the 19th century that white people are superior to black people?"

fixed that for you.

no, we don't.
2016-06-12 00:22:22 UTC
Check it out



https://m.facebook.com/See-the-truth-1360742170618451/?ref=bookmarks



https://m.facebook.com/Eligos-1182167575156646/?ref=bookmarks
2016-06-11 23:35:03 UTC
Well even the most religious people can see that.
Mike
2016-06-12 05:53:57 UTC
Why ask athiests? Why not ask evolutionary biologists?
2016-06-11 23:22:51 UTC
Get a life, you Anonymous coward.
Artemis
2016-06-11 23:54:37 UTC
Charles Darwin's influential 1859 book On the Origin of Species did not discuss human origins. The extended wording on the title page, which adds by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life, uses the general term "races" as an alternative for "varieties" and does not carry the modern connotation of human races. The first use in the book refers to "the several races, for instance, of the cabbage" and proceeds to a discussion of "the hereditary varieties or races of our domestic animals and plants".[57] In The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex (1871), Darwin examined the question of "Arguments in favour of, and opposed to, ranking the so-called races of man as distinct species" and reported no racial distinctions that would indicate that human races are discrete species:



It may be doubted whether any character can be named, which is distinctive of a race and is constant ... they graduate into each other, and ... it is hardly possible to discover clear, distinctive characters between them ... As it is improbable that the numerous, and unimportant, points of resemblance, between the several races of man, in bodily structure and mental faculties (I do not here refer to similar customs) should all have been independently acquired, they must have been inherited from progenitors who had these same characters.[56][58]



In Richard Weikart's 2004 book From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics and Racism in Germany he claims:



Darwin clearly believed that the struggle for existence among humans would result in racial extermination. In Descent of Man he asserted, "At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races."[59][60][61][62][63]



According to talk.origins, this is a common creationist quote mine.[64] They argue that when Darwin referred to "race" he meant "varieties," not human races,[65] as per the cabbage example cited above. Apart from the plain meaning of the words, they assert "there is nothing in Darwin's words to support (and much in his life to contradict) any claim that Darwin wanted the 'lower' or 'savage races' to be exterminated. He was merely noting what appeared to him to be factual, based in no small part on the evidence of a European binge of imperialism and colonial conquest during his lifetime." [66] The quoted passage, in full context, reads:



The great break in the organic chain between man and his nearest allies, which cannot be bridged over by any extinct or living species, has often been advanced as a grave objection to the belief that man is descended from some lower form; but this objection will not appear of much weight to those who, from general reasons, believe in the general principle of evolution. Breaks often occur in all parts of the series, some being wide, sharp and defined, others less so in various degrees; as between the orang and its nearest allies—between the Tarsius and the other Lemuridae between the elephant, and in a more striking manner between the Ornithorhynchus or Echidna, and all other mammals. But these breaks depend merely on the number of related forms which have become extinct. At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the ***** or Australian and the gorilla.



— The Descent of Man (1871), Volume I, Chapter VI: "On the Affinities and Genealogy of Man", pages 200–201

In the Chapter "On the Development of the Intellectual and Moral Faculties during Primeval and Civilised Times" Darwin claimed that "the western nations of Europe, who now so immeasurably surpass their former savage progenitors, and stand at the summit of civilisation, owe little or none of their superiority to direct inheritance from the old Greeks"[67]



While proposing a sole human species, Darwin contrasted the "civilized races" with the "savage races". Like most of his contemporaries, except the naturalist Alfred Russel Wallace, he did not distinguish "biological race" from "cultural race". Moreover, he noted that savage races risked extinction more from white European colonialism, than from evolutionary inadequacy.[56][68]



On the question of differences between races, Darwin wrote:



There is, however, no doubt that the various races, when carefully compared and measured, differ much from each other,—as in the texture of the hair, the relative proportions of all parts of the body, the capacity of the lungs, the form and capacity of the skull, and even in the convolutions of the brain. But it would be an endless task to specify the numerous points of structural difference. The races differ also in constitution, in acclimatisation, and in liability to certain diseases. Their mental characteristics are likewise very distinct; chiefly as it would appear in their emotional, but partly in their intellectual, faculties. Every one who has had the opportunity of comparison, must have been struck with the contrast between the taciturn, even morose, aborigines of S. America and the light-hearted, talkative negroes. There is a nearly similar contrast between the Malays and the Papuans, who live under the same physical conditions, and are separated from each other only by a narrow space of sea.[69]
2016-06-12 19:18:28 UTC
No, that is a bunch of RACIST GARBAGE.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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